A rebellious song about Putin, the tensions between Ukrainians and Poles, and the unpredictable Trump: an interview with Andrey Deshchitsa.

When you sang along with Ukrainians an inappropriate song about Putin in front of the Russian embassy in 2014, your name became known across the country. How did this endeavor affect your diplomatic career? Do you regret it?

At that time, Oleksandr Turchynov was the acting president of Ukraine, and Petro Poroshenko had just been elected. Both understood my position. However, Petro Poroshenko explained to me that I could not remain in the role of acting Minister of Foreign Affairs. That’s when negotiations in the Normandy format began, which included Russia. My presence in office was hindering those negotiations.

It was decided that I would become an ambassador. I was allowed to choose a country — I settled on Poland.

I do not regret singing about Putin alongside the protesters back then. That song became a worldwide hit, and I became one of the harbingers of the truth about Putin as a leader who does not deserve respect.

If you could turn back time, would you advise signing the infamous Budapest Memorandum without Ukraine having full NATO membership?

Ukraine should have received at least an invitation to become a NATO member. That was quite realistic.

If we look at the Budapest Memorandum, it provides for consultations with the guarantors of our security in the event of aggression. Those consultations took place when Russia occupied Crimea. I was the acting Minister of Foreign Affairs at that time and can confirm this.

We discussed coordinating actions with the signatories of the Budapest Memorandum, primarily with the United States and the United Kingdom. But those were only consultations. The document did not stipulate sending troops to Ukraine or providing us with weapons. It was only about declarative actions taken in 2014. And that was where it ended.

Was signing the Budapest Memorandum without effective security guarantees the biggest failure of Ukrainian diplomacy in modern history?

I wouldn’t call it a diplomatic failure — Ukrainian diplomacy was still getting on its feet, governments were changing, and we did not understand all the details and consequences of transferring nuclear weapons to Russia.

Even now, I would certainly negotiate regarding an invitation for Ukraine to NATO. Did my colleagues think about this at that time? I’m not sure. The relationship between Ukraine and Russia was much friendlier back then than it is now.

The Budapest Memorandum is a lesson for us. Any future documents concerning security guarantees for Ukraine must be much stronger. The best security guarantees are NATO membership.

“Russia will do everything possible to sow discord between Poles and Ukrainians”

You were the ambassador of Ukraine to Poland for many years. What do you think Ukrainians should know about Poles to establish mutual understanding and partnership between our countries?

The relationship between Ukraine and Poland has gone through different stages. From 2015 to 2022, the Polish leadership refrained from visiting our country altogether. With the beginning of Russia's full-scale invasion, the situation fundamentally changed — Poles and Ukrainians drew closer together.

Poland provided us with significant support. President Andrzej Duda constantly lobbied for our country's interests in Europe and supported Zelensky in every possible way.

Regional authorities also did everything possible to assist Ukrainian refugees — they were welcomed in unlimited numbers. Poles supported Ukrainians in distress, and we must remember this and be grateful for their help.

It is also important to remember that Poland has its own internal politics and problems. Polish society is mono-religious and mono-national. At the same time, it is politically divided — the right, left, and centrists are constantly competing with each other. The Ukrainian issue is part of this political struggle.

All political forces agree that exhumation of the victims of the Volhynia tragedy must take place. Poles are demanding that the Ukrainian authorities lift the ban on conducting search operations, exhumations, and establishing the names of all victims of this tragedy.

This issue has been and remains on the agenda of Ukrainian-Polish relations. Interest in it somewhat waned during the first two years of the full-scale invasion, but now this topic has resurfaced — Poles find it difficult to understand why the Ukrainian government does not allow them to bury their loved ones according to Christian traditions and pay tribute to the deceased.

Why doesn't Ukraine cooperate with Poland on this issue?

Between 2015 and 2017, several sites of Ukrainian memory were destroyed in Poland, and graves and monuments related to Ukraine were desecrated. At the same time, similar acts of vandalism occurred with Polish monuments in Ukraine. Most of the desecrated monuments in our country were restored using Ukrainian funds. However, the situation in Poland is somewhat different. Not all monuments there have been restored. We have official agreements to preserve these memorial sites. But the Polish side has not been sufficiently active in restoring them.

In reality, the destruction of these monuments, it seems to me, was a provocation by Russia. All these memorial sites were destroyed at night. Videos appeared online showing people in balaclavas vandalizing Ukrainian graves and crosses.

When it came to the dismantling of the monument to the Ukrainian Insurgent Army in Poland, a decision was made in Kyiv to block search operations related to the Volhynia tragedy. There is still no legal resolution as such. It was more of a political statement. However, any requests from the Polish side for the exhumation of the victims of the Volhynia tragedy are rejected by Ukraine.

In my opinion, we need to rise above all insults. We must demonstrate our political maturity and European-ness in this matter.

It is time to allow Poland to conduct the exhumation of the victims of the Volhynia tragedy. One can debate for a long time about who is to blame for this tragedy. That is another question. But agreeing to the exhumation of the victims will help ease unnecessary tension between our countries. Because this issue is being played upon.

Poles know their history very well. We, on the other hand, evaluate our own history differently, and moreover, we know very little about the history of Poland and Ukrainian-Polish relations. In particular, Ukrainians know very little about the events in Volhynia in the 1940s, let alone the 1920s or 1930s. Unlike the Poles.

We need to raise the level of knowledge about our history and the history of Ukrainian-Polish relations — to conduct joint research. I hope that when Ukraine joins the EU, it will create conditions for civilly studying our shared history.

Can Poland block our Euro-integration due to historical disputes?

I don't think that will happen. We need to learn to tolerate Polish heroes. There will come a time when Poles will also tolerate our heroes.

Perhaps Ukrainians and Poles cannot find common ground not only because they have different views on history?

We are now moving to a different level of relations between Ukraine and Poland. And to a different level of mutual perception.

For a long time, Ukraine was perceived in Poland as a country that should be pulled out of Russia's sphere of influence and helped to join the EU. Ukraine viewed Poland as a kind of lobbyist and advocate in the process of Euro-Atlantic integration. But the situation has already changed.

We have reached a new level and are ready to be equal partners, who will soon compete in many areas — agriculture, freight transport, logistics, and possibly infrastructure construction. All of this will take place within the framework of the European Union.

Ukrainians are already showing Poles that they can be more creative and entrepreneurial in some areas than our neighbors.

Poland is gradually ceasing to be a mentor and is becoming our equal partner, although not everyone in Poland has realized this yet. This is something new for the Poles — time must pass for them to accept this and begin to perceive Ukraine as an equal partner. Our countries are awaiting civilized competition in the European Union. But until Ukraine becomes a full member of the EU, Russia will do everything possible to sow discord between Poles and Ukrainians, provoking conflicts between them.

However, Ukraine and Poland are destined for strategic partnership. We will definitely be good neighbors and partners in the European Union and NATO.

Recently, Polish Deputy Prime Minister Krzysztof Gawkowski stated that Kyiv's demands to shoot down Russian missiles and drones over Ukraine from their territory mean an attempt to drag Poland into the war. Why do representatives of the Polish authorities regularly make anti-Ukrainian statements?

When Poland provided Ukraine with weapons, Russia did not perceive it as an act of aggression. Poland should consider the possibility of shooting down Russian drones and missiles over Ukrainian territory if they are heading towards Poland. This is in its own security interest.

Such statements resemble part of the election campaign. Presidential elections will take place in Poland in May 2025 — the electoral campaign has effectively begun, and parties are already nominating their candidates.

Secondly, in Ukrainian